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Janice Fiamengo's avatar

Feminist Elizabeth Wilkins-McKee commented here at great length, also publishing two Substack essays. A PhD in Physics who wishes to remain anonymous wrote the following in rebuttal:

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I recently came across Janice Fiamengo's "Why Does Feminism Want Women Fat?" critiquing the fat acceptance/body positivity movement. Elizabeth Wilkins-McKee responded negatively, claiming in her opening statement that:

"I think this essay dramatically oversimplifies a remarkably complex area of research."

Elizabeth then proceeds to give a long list of medical and psychological lines of argumentation to assert her claim that Janice is out-of-touch in alleging a significant role for feminism in the ascendency of the fat acceptance movement and its harms to society.

As an observer with a STEM background, I have major issues with Elizabeth's position on the fat acceptance movement's attempt to negate deep biological drives underlying what men find physically attractive in women.

Before I begin, it's also important to identify what most likely motivated Elizabeth to write about her opposition to Janice in the first place and to subsequently attack her credibility. The most obvious signal appears at the beginning of Janice's article, with a photo of fat acceptance advocate, Virgie Tovar, an obviously overweight woman with a double chin, a fat face, and by logical inference a large waistline who nonetheless "was hired by the San Francisco Department of Public Health in late 2024 to advise the department on weight bias."

For someone like Elizabeth who advertises herself as a licensed therapist to help people with psychologically-driven issues, I can understand how and why she would be triggered by the image of a clearly unhealthy woman being hired to give guidance on public health issues when she (Virgie Tovar) has given no clear indication of any interest to work on her own health and fitness or to advocate as such for others. The photo is jarring, showcasing the obvious absurdity of this line of reasoning from both Tovar and the San Francisco public health department to support the foundational principles of fat acceptance.

While it's certainly true that, for many people, there are deeply rooted psychological issues to overcome regarding body image, it's still a basic fact that a psychologically healthy person who's also severely overweight/morbidly obese has a serious physical problem that dramatically undermines quality of life.

Carrying too much body fat on the chest, arms, legs, torso, etc. will compromise basic body movement, impose dangerous levels of stress on vital organs, create high blood pressure throughout the body, and over time induce the formation of fat blockages in veins and arteries, leading to strokes, blindness, and other catastrophic consequences. NONE of these health risks has anything to do with the alleged societal merits of the body positivity movement, since the issues outlined above concern the FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCES of physics, chemistry, and biology that simply don't care about one's personal psychology or ideological worldview.

It's a basic physical reality that if you consume more energy per day as food than you expend through exercise and other productive activity, the net outcome is that the difference is stored in your body and you will gain weight. This is an obvious example of high-school level physics known as "conservation of energy," and no amount of psychological posturing will ever violate that reality. In that respect, there's nothing complicated about what needs to be done to help both men and women alike. For people who are willing to look for solutions, reliable fitness programs and other information are available on how to lose excess weight safely and effectively, and also keep it off permanently over time.

In light of essential facts about the physical universe, I can see how someone like Elizabeth will feel very threatened by someone like Janice affirming the existence of an objective reality that's independent of the (MIS)-PERCEPTIONS of that reality. This isn't to say that people who operate within the therapy profession don't have something positive to contribute. However, it's very dangerous for such people to outright deny the realities of basic science that even grade-school students have no trouble accepting as true.

I think that people like Elizabeth crave a longing for excessive complexity in understanding conceptually simple and physically-driven issues like weight loss and personal health in order to unnecessarily inject social and cultural descriptions of the problem and present them as causal factors when they simply aren't so. Furthermore, quoting from various studies in support of such claims doesn't necessarily indicate anything of substance when the studies seek to avoid basic facts that everyone understands.

While I don't think that Elizabeth is necessarily a stupid person, she does come across as MEDIOCRE at best in her scholarly understanding. From my observation of her critique of Janice's article, along with her own articles on Substack, with a disturbing fixation on Janice's personhood overall, I sense a feeling of intellectual inadequacy on her part and a need to overcompensate by citing a heavy reliance on "scholarly" literature to bolster her alleged points. All of this is done without ever addressing Janice's basic truth claims and the evidence that she cites.

Part of this sense of insecurity can be attributed to the fact that Janice has a sizeable following of over 9600 subscribers to her Substack page, while Elizabeth has 530 subscribers. While that's certainly a respectable number of people who follow Elizabeth, basic arithmetic says that for every one subscriber who supports her, Janice has well over 18 supporters. I already know that numerical fact doesn't sit well with feminists like Elizabeth whenever they come across an anti-feminist like Janice with expert knowledge about feminism as a social movement, and who is articulate enough to explain all of the demonstrably negative consequences caused by the feminist movement for the past 100 years or more.

If we examine the statistics of Janice's original article posted since July 6, to date there are 441 likes, 138 comments, and 70 restacks recorded. We can compare these statistics to that of Elizabeth's first Substack rebuttal posted on July 14 entitled: "One Weird Trick for Critiquing Feminism: Ignore What Feminists Actually Wrote." For her article, to date there are 13 likes, 12 comments, and 8 restacks. While that's not nothing, a grade-school level calculation gives Janice a 34-to-1 advantage on the number of likes compared to Elizabeth, and no amount of psychological-based argumentation will ever negate the basic mathematics of that reality. I would encourage Elizabeth to repeat the calculations for the other statistics on her own to drive the point home.

As for Elizabeth's second rebuttal posted on July 21 called: "You Cannot Diagnose an Intellectual Tradition" that's also addressed to Janice by name, her article has 4 likes, 9 comments, and 3 restacks, corresponding to a 110-to-1 like ratio advantage in favour of Janice.

In fairness to Elizabeth, there is one caveat to incorporate in this comparison, which is that a large CONSENSUS of popular opinion doesn't necessarily imply CORRECTNESS in the belief. However, that argument also applies when looking at feminism as a GLOBAL phenomenon where there exists a broad base of support among academic, media, and government institutions with the benefit of decades' worth of social programming to underpin its popularity. While anti-feminist belief is still numerically small on a global scale, its rate of support is growing significantly as an on-line presence that's not ever going away, with a corresponding increase in the outright rejection of feminism whose long-term future as a belief system appears destined for TOTAL ANNIHILATION over time.

For someone like Elizabeth who has a strong emotional attachment to feminism, someone like Janice clearly appears as an existential threat to her worldview, so it's of no surprise that she would feel such hostility towards her intellectual opponent. The fundamental problem Elizabeth has, however, is the growing worldwide recognition that the entirety of feminist scholarship is COMPLETE GARBAGE that's unworthy of anyone's time to read.

The fact that Janice has a deep understanding of feminist literature and can effectively articulate its toxicity for the benefit of others who don't have to subject themselves to this nonsense is something to be commended. From a cost-benefit basis, why would anyone want to waste his/her valuable time reading such idiocies as found in the ENTIRE CANON of feminist literature!? For someone like Elizabeth, whose entire line of argument is reliant on the same body of feminist literature, she would get ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE trying to persuade scientists like me to waste my time reading such COMPLETE GIBBERISH passing itself off as erudite scholarship, let alone expect me to take any of it seriously!

The bottom line throughout all of this controversy is that people have the right to believe or disbelieve whatever they want. However, NO ONE has the right to demand a specific outcome based upon said beliefs. If someone needs to adopt a posture of using complicated and convoluted lines of argument in order to address a relatively simple issue like weight loss and personal health, it's clear to me that such a person is employing a tactic to obscure the truth than to reveal it.

Ash Pariseau's avatar

I think this misses what women are actually pushing back on. Most women know health matters. We live in these bodies. We know when we feel strong, tired, heavy, inflamed, anxious, attractive, disconnected, all of it. The issue is not that women want to be unhealthy. The issue is that women are tired of their bodies being treated like public property.

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