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"Boys will keep on looking for satisfying icons of non-feminist masculinity, and perhaps the teachers should ask some probing questions about why boys aren’t buying the prissy pap they’re pushing." Brilliant comment, Janice. Such an important article.

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

This article is on the conversation about the need to educate boys about misogyny.

https://theconversation.com/why-misogyny-needs-to-be-tackled-in-education-from-primary-school-157276

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Jan 16, 2023·edited Jan 16, 2023

I was interested in the comment on Marcus Rashford. Who has just further cemented his reputation as a local hero by scoring the winning goal in the latest clash with the local rival team. He is talented, highly competative, very rich at a young age, combative and led a hardly original campaign on free school meals for poor kids. He drives an expensive car and is undoubtedly a "success". Any belief in his "empathy" seems to be based solely on the school meals campaign. In fact such charitable work is pretty common amongst such super rich players who often come from very poor backgrounds. As it is from players and teams in less glamorous teams and sports. Curiously because it is possible to be masculine and have sympathy. Of course the obvious message from Marcus is that you have to fight your way to success before anyone will listen. Rather like Andrew Tate after all.

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

Folktales are a good source of non-feminist masculinity since most collections were published before it took hold. And who doesn't love a good story? The following tales are recommend for children, though the language is a bit outdated:

"The Four Skillful Brothers" - a quartet of men work together to achieve a goal. (Source: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/jacob-grimm_wilhelm-grimm/household-tales/margaret-hunt/text/the-four-skilful-brothers).

"Tablecloth, Donkey, and Club" - a boy learns to outwit thieves and get revenge on his abusive mother. (Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/534339?refreqid=excelsior%3A58412d15f65d03f321f7a419d44d3e01&seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents)

"The Smith and the Fairies" - a man ventures into Fairyland to save his kidnapped son. (Source: https://sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/pt2/pt212.htm)

Additionally, there are stories with female protagonists that offer good alternatives to the awful, feminist-influenced "heroines" in mainstream entertainment:

"Kate Crackernuts" - a girl breaks a curse on her stepsister and then rescues a prince. (Source: https://www.surlalunefairytales.com/oldsite/authors/jacobs/english/katiecrackernuts.html)

"The Stolen Bairn and the Sidh" - a woman ventures into Fairyland to save her kidnapped son. (Source: https://storytellingforeveryone.net/stolen-bairn-and-the-sidh/)

"A Story of the Oki Islands" - a girl searches for her exiled father and saves an island from a sea monster. (Source: https://www.sacred-texts.com/shi/atfj/atfj19.htm)

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author

Thank you for these! You're a genius.

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You're too kind, Janice.

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Yeah, the feminists brought the Tate phenomenon on themselves too. Asking people to believe absurd things and suppress their own instincts makes them rebel and believe other things which contradict the previous absurd things, but are not necessarily helpful or true (think how the catholic church effectively invented or at least promoted satanism). As someone (Steiner?) once said, the opposite of a bad idea is usually another bad idea.

I'm more concerned about the fact that alpha males like Tate can hijack people's limbic system and make them believe that climate change is a hoax because there are governments who use climate change as a way to control people, and we humans don't like to be controlled (unless it's by an alpha male whom we trust). Or that the covid vaccine is dangerous because the data is presented in misleading (but easily debunked) ways by the likes of other alpha males like Steve Kirsch (I know you will disagree with me here, Janice, but that's OK). Or that young men should just be able to fuck whomever they want, whenever they want, regardless of the consequences to society (the reason monogamy evolved is that cultures that adopted it were able to achieve greater levels of cooperation and male-sexual-satisfaction-equality than those that didn't).

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Thank you for this,

good role-models in stories are hard to come by these days. I will find a use for these for my son.

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I'm so glad I could help! There more that might make for good reading:

"The Stones of Five Colours and the Empress Jokwa" - two rival soldiers work together to protect China. (Source: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Japanese_Fairy_Book/The_Stones_of_Five_Colours_and_the_Empress_Jokwa)

"The Little Horsemen of Padstow" - a boy follows magical wooden figures as they race around town. (Source: https://mazedtales.org/content/stories/little-horsemen-padstow)

"Shippeitaro" - a samurai liberates a town from a monster cat that's been demanding human sacrifices. (Source: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/641/pg641-images.html#link2H_4_0005)

I hope you and your son like them!

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Your son might enjoy the "Great Brain" books by John D. Fitzgerald. They are about very boylike boys in the Western frontier days, and I couldn't get enough of them when I was a kid.

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Jan 16, 2023·edited Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

I went to an all boys school in the 1980s and it seems a world away from what's being descibed here. There was around 450 pupils, so it wasn't a huge school. The number of fights between 2 boys per year you could count on one hand. I didn't enjoy school, but the things I can remember most is the anarchic, irreverent, creative humour. Some of it was genius. A lot of it was completely pointless and it was just done for the sake of fun.

One example I can still remember after all these years. We studied Seamus Heaney in English. The cover of the text book was a black and white photo of the poet standing on a deserted beach wearing a parka anorak. The previous owner of my copy from the year before had, using just a bottle of indian ink, bleach and a paintbrush, painstakingly removed Heaney's head, painted in the hood of the parka and the clouds leaving a headless figure on the beach. It was done with photorealistic pefection. He had also reworked the title - adding upstrokes to 'a's, matching the typeface - again perfectly - so the poet was renamed Sedmus Hedney. It must have taken an entire weekend. But why? Just because he could and it resulted in a small work of brilliance. That's only one example. When superglue was invented - boy, it was mayhem. Some jokes were cruel, but the majority were harmless. Some were hilarious. And I think that the teachers admired all of this in the boys and respected their brains.

There was an all girls school nearby and, from their conversations, none of this carry-on happened. They shared friendships and jokes, but nowhere near at the same level.

I do believe there is a unique form of genius that happens for a few years in the lives of school boys. And it saddens me that it's being kicked to the curb. We are told if boys have a tendency to positive behaviours that we see less of in girls its because society sabotages girls to not behave like this. No positive behaviours are the product of masculinity. Only the negative ones.

What an an abusive, cruel thing to do to children.

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author

Beautifully said.

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

Re-education for boys, but feminist education is perfectly fine. Such an irritating double standard.

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

Janice, this is one of your best ever. First class. This line killed me - 'frame women as inadequate to parent and teach boys.' Its patently obvious that women alone are inadequate to parent and teach boys. Duh. Also, regarding Tate, I am not personally a fan, but I can only laugh at this nonsense. Given he is a BIPOC (I love mocking that word), if you DO have any problems with him, that is just evidence of your own racism. Just ask Meghan Markle.

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author

Thanks for this. About boys not needing male role models, the willed obtuseness is at DEFCON 2. It just kills me.

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Jan 16, 2023·edited Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

I knew nothing of this man. And I know little now. However I do remember being young. Marc Bolan performing on TV in a dress. David Bowie and androgyny and the exhilaration of buying the Sex Pistols first album and having to hide the sleve of "Never mind the b............s" (as well as the lyrics on Aladdinsane). Anything banned by the BBC was an instant hit. In general if it was disaproved of by parents, teachers and "old" people ( 26or over) it was instantly attractive. Whatever the content of Mr. Tate's oeuvre, it is becoming more and more known and more and more desirable to teenagers.

I wonder sometimes if so many of these people were ever young themselves, because they so repeatedly make glamorous the very things they so dislike.

In a sense one of the things that the TERFs seem oblivious to is that they are the boring old farts now. And inevitably "the young" are unimpressed when much more exciting is 32 genders etc. Let's be honest I was never really for nuclear disarmament, saving the rain forest (how come it's still even there in Brazil 40 years later? ), "troops out" and hedged my bets with sit ins for free Palestine and Israellis kibbutz. A dallience with vegetarianism reflected a shortage of money (pulses were so cheap) and a then girlfriend's enthusiasm. While rocking against racism, was very much about the rock.

I expect the attempts to simultaneously ban Mr Tate and talk about him in every school in England will boost his audience exponentially.

And how exotic was the Velvet Underground's New York or the drug addled group Blondie. In ways that ABBA were completely not. Yet still one had to work in Woothworths and buckle down to learn "the hustle" to impress the girlfriend.

Needless to say at various points my now impeccably nice offspring contrived to shock me with rap, grand theft auto, prodigious vodka consumption, revolutionary change, spray tan and so on. On the plus side a relentless exposure to equality and diversity at school seems to have left them with a belief in females taking responsibility , expecting equal treatment and a distinct scepticism about the media.

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May 23, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

"Whatever the content of Mr. Tate's oeuvre, it is becoming more and more known and more and more desirable to teenagers."

Now that he's converted, is Islam becoming more desirable to teens?

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author

I suspect it is, though he doesn't speak that much about Islam specifically.

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He made several references to Islam before converting and before going to prison. Specifically about how he was going to get himself, and I quote, "an Islamic ass wife" and how Islam solves all the problems of "western" and "modern" society by allowing the abuse of women. Whether it allows it or not, he thinks it does and sees that as a good thing. For example he said he will amass a pile of bricks so that he can throw them at his "Islamic ass wife" if she gets out of line. And so many more vile things. Then he converted to Islam and shortly after that went to prison so we didn't hear much from him. Some Muslim Manospherians actually think he got arrested BECAUSE he converted. After all, "the Matrix hates Islam", right?

Anyway, I'm willing to bet, like most "western" converts to Islam, he won't stick with it. He won't die a Muslim. Islam has a very high turnover rate.

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The vileness of Tate's comments, almost certainly not intended to be believed, is at least equalled by the vileness of western family law and practise, in which a man can be prevented from seeing his own children for years by his ex-wife's self-serving lies, and in which a false allegation can permanently ruin a man's reputation and career. When it comes to sexual morality and family life, the weakness and corruption of the west makes it difficult to sneer at Islamic ways.

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May 23, 2023·edited May 23, 2023

"The vileness of Tate's comments, almost certainly not intended to be believed, is at least equalled by the vileness of western family law and practise"

Apples and oranges.

"When it comes to sexual morality and family life, the weakness and corruption of the west makes it difficult to sneer at Islamic ways."

Apples and oranges.

Speaking of "family law and practice", in Islam triple talaq gets a woman divorced. The husband (not the wife) can divorce his spouse simply by uttering "talaq" to her 3 times. Look it up. India recently made this illegal. Before, the law had to uphold it because marriage and family laws in India are different for all the different religions there. And India isn't even a Muslim majority country.

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I'm no fan of Islam. You miss my point. Conservatives and liberals alike criticize Islam on the ground that it fails to uphold women's freedoms, and fail to confront the deep problems in western family law that are destroying families and turning men off marriage. You can shout that Islam is BAAAD, but that won't save western culture.

Meanwhile, a not insignificant number of western women prefer Islamic men.

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Not apples and oranges.

Tate doesn't say vile things. You're just a massive bitch who lies on the web.

The wife can also divorce the husband in islam without cause.

Maybe stop gaslighting people on the internet.

Jesus. You're such a raging bitch.

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He never said that islam allows the abuse of women, because it doesn't. He doesn't think it does either, and he neve said that.

Learn what a joke is instead of being a terribly anal retentive bitch.

Such a skank.

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Another one of your great philippics against the feminist orthodoxy. Agree 100%. When you browbeat boys and men for 50 years, what do you think is going to happen when Mr. Top G comes along and gives Nurse Ratched the finger?

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Jan 16, 2023·edited Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

The reality is Tate is actually articulate, intelligent and informed. All that this saga demonstrates is that boys and men are pushing back against years of unbridled misandry and gynocentrism, and that those who speak out and push back will be targeted and de-platformed.

Clementine Ford repeatedly posted or wrote encouraging women to kill men, and faced little censure. It is hard to imagine what would happen to a man that did that.

Push back against the marginalisation of prominent men (which is now happening also to Elon Musk). Push back against misandry and gynocentrism.

The de-masculinisation and demonization of our boys and men runs in parallel with our boys and men self-harming at record rates and falling far being against every health and wellbeing metric.

https://youtu.be/PcKmrjCbFGM

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Thanks, Michael. Absolutely agreed.

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Excellent piece. The toxic masculinity frame is presented by the pronounists without a contrasting positive concept, which then enables them to essentially define it as masculinity in general. This of course is the entire rhetorical purposes of the castrators. Narcissistic grifters like Tate are the logical flip side. If one side says 'all masculine traits are bad', including the good ones, the other side can simply respond 'all masculine traits are good', including the bad ones. For most young boys the latter message is obviously more appealing, meaning that the they will model themselves on the Tates of this world.

This is why we're developing the concept of tonic masculinity, described here:

https://barsoom.substack.com/p/tonic-masculinity

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Great comment, oh Warlord of Mars! yet another reason to reject the term "toxic masculinity".

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Jan 17, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

This social constructionism and feminization is such an uncomfortable fit, boys will never truthfully adopt it. Our nervous systems reject it, and that is that.

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author

Pithy and to the point.

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Tait was unknown to most of us until the woke world set out to make an example of him. The attempt to silence made him famous, and showed him off to people throughout the world, many of whom liked what they saw, despite the loathing dripping off the commentators.

What I like about him is his emphasis on improving the self. Men have little option but to make the most of who they are and what they can do. They are, and should be, judged on their performance. Certainly, no feminist is going to make a space in the lifeboat for a struggling man. Equality be damned!

Tait seems to be a risk taker, and so I cannot discount the possibility that some crime or other was committed, but that might be much harder to find than a woman prepared to make an accusation for which no evidence exists and for which they will be well compensated by modern media.

There may be more kicks to come for our hero!

Good show Janice!

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

On the last link to the article "Why do people blindly support Johnny Depp? I’ll tell you why" authored by Charlotte Proudman, have a look at her twitter account, she's one ferocious feminist. I'm constantly whacking my head on why these women think this way. As far as I'm aware this kind of disposition seem unique to the female. Is there an evolutionary explanation for this?

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I'm an old 'fan' of Proudman's from the early days. Alas, I don't have an explanation for her unrelenting hatefulness, narcissism, and vindictiveness. It seems quite a few women get off on anti-male bigotry, for which they reap the rewards of career success, admiring fans cheering on their 'bravery,' and support from governments and mass media.

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I don't see how that would explain this disposition prior to second wave feminism - sure the current one, yes.

Charlotte seems deeply upset by Johnny's victory, constantly tweeting about it, writing about it.

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Jan 18, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

Having read Proudman's Twitter feed, I'd advise any man to stay outside a 100km radius of her at all times.

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

I remember how Rock and Roll was seen as the work of the Devil and a bad influence on the youth of the day.

The establishment tried to ban Rock and Roll, Jazz and over the years certain books have been banned from publication. Yet the world still exists and some of the Rock and Rollers are now elected officials and leaders in other fields of endeavour.

Should be interesting how the game with Tate plays out.

Will it fizzle and sputter into obscurity?

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Jan 19, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

If only those who don't get it would read this. It is so clear, and they just can't see.

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Jan 18, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

Love the content and the masterful writing, Janice.

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author

Thank you, Phil. I deeply appreciate the encouragement.

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Jan 16, 2023Liked by Janice Fiamengo

Very much on point, Janice. Would love to see Richard Reeves invite you and Bettina for a discussion of these and related issues. Or, can you invite him? Would he accept? Not clear.

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author

He might invite Bettina! He could learn a lot from her.

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